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Jarir
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Joined: 01 Jan 1970
Posts: 82
Location: Jordan / USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Needed help to identify... Reply with quote

Anybody knows what the structures in these photos are?

They are located on an old desert road parallel to Highway 40, just south of the Amra Palace. They look like milestones, but they are built at relatively short intervals and have no inscriptions. Could they have been used to locate the road in dust or flood conditions? Any help to identify these structures and the period they were built is really appreciated.



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nafila
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Joined: 19 Mar 2008
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

during a university trip to desert castles a couple of yrs ago, the guide mentioned they are milestones. but thinking of what you've said about short intervals and inscriptions, i think i can easily question the guide's info. i still don't have the answer of course, but these are two related articles that put emphasis on milestones and support your doubts on the structures in photo.

http://198.62.75.1/www1/ofm/mad/articles/GrafRoads.html

http://198.62.75.1/www1/ofm/fai/FAImil.html
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Jarir
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the new info. Did the guide suggest a construction period? They don't look durable enough to be much older than a century. My guess is that they are Ottoman.
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mo
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it be that the heavy fog common in that area is the reason for such small intervals?
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Jarir
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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although it does get very foggy occasionally in that area, bad weather is usually temporary and can be simply waited out. The reason for these structure must be more persistent.

If these structure were built by the Ottomans, then it might be because their military caravans kicked up lots of dust and made it difficult to see the road ahead. You can see military caravans in dusty conditions in some scenes of the Lawrence of Arabia movie.
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hassan_mahtat



Joined: 05 May 2008
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Location: Morocco and Moving

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are quite many to be milestones, not solid enough either.
Friend Dominic thought that they may be Stadia Moles to calculate the road distances or so...

I think you should check what's in below and inside the mole, am thinking of some underground water canals; seen similar structure on some Iranian aqueducts pictures (trying to find it back).

Nafila, your guide reminds me of Volubilis one saying Hercules hunting ducks...
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Jarir
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Location: Jordan / USA

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These structures are simple piles of stones covered with cement.

In the first photo above, you can see that the cement skin has been damaged, exposing the stones inside.

In the second photo, the first structure has been completely damaged and reduced to a pile of stones.

The structures are built directly on the desert pavement without a foundation. Other than some animal nests, there's nothing underneath.
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Jarir
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mystery deepens!

Examining satellite images, these structures are south of the Amra Palace. It's unlikely that they're connected to floods or water, because they are also outside of Wadi Butum.

The strange thing is that this area is full lines traced on the desert pavement! They appear to follow elevation contours! The desert road with these structures is actually a line that intersects these contours. It's marked with the red arrow on this image:


If anybody happens to be in the area, please examine these contour lines, and ask the guards at the Amra palace if they know anything about them.

The road is at this location. The Amra palace is is at this location.


Last edited by Jarir on Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jarir
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a snapshot from the Lawrence of Arabia movie. It shows the kind of desert roads used around the Ottoman period. It's a dirt road simply lined by piles of stones to mark it in absence of other landmarks. They're not exactly like the structures in question, but very close:
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